To Lie Or Not To Lie...

...that, apparently, is a huge question!


Be warned. This will get long!





I guess the first thing to do is figure out what is meant by "lie". Let's look at some definitions:



"LIE"

noun - 1. a false statement made with the intent to decieve; an intentional untruth; a falsehood ... 2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression ... 3. an inaccurate or false statement

verb - 4. to knowingly speak falsely ... 5. to convey a false impression ... 6. to bring about or affect by lying



Well, now we know what a "lie" is, and what it means "to lie". Basically, knowingly saying something you know to be false. Or, saying something to intentionally portray someone or something differently than what/how that thing or person is.



As for why this topic has come up:



I recently have been flamed for a parenting decision. That decision is to never lie to my kids. I cannot expect them to tell the truth if I am unwilling to do so myself. I want my children to ALWAYS speak the truth. As such, I must ALWAYS speak the truth as well. I cannot expect them to behave in any way I am not willing to myself.

In my situation, this means that I also cannot lie where my daughter's father (BFa) is concerned. Yes, she is only 4 years old. However, she has begun asking questions concerning her father. She has also begun requesting to stay home, rather than going to visit him.



We'll start with a simple one:



Maybe 4 months ago my DD started an "I don't like boys" kick. This has been an ongoing thing, and yes, it includes ALL boys - Daddy, little brother, and BFa included. About 3 months ago, DD started asking me if I liked this person or that person. It started with people like a grandparent, then an aunt or uncle, then a cousin, then Daddy, then her brother...

...and then she moved on to people in BFa's family. She stuck to 3 people:

WBFa ... BFa ... Grandma (BFa's mother)

Now, some would tell me I was wrong for what I did. They would say that I should have lied, because it would be a small lie. They would say that I should have lied because it would prevent DD from making her decisions and basing her own feelings on those of her mother (mine). However, if I were to lie, based on that argument wouldn't she still base her opinions on what I said? Would she then not learn to form her own opinions, because her own might differ from Mommy's? Wouldn't she only like these people because Mommy likes them?

I told DD the truth. I like WBFa a little bit, but not enough to call her a "friend". I do not like BFa much at all. I do not like, and will probably never like, Grandma.

At the time this happened, DD decided that I only like WBFa a little bit because WBFa puts DD in time-out sometimes. She did not ask if this was why. She decided that must be the reason, and I saw no reason to correct it since she did not ask.

She also decided I don't like BFa because BFa is a boy. Again, until she asks why I don't like BFa, I see no reason to change this.

She could not figure out why I don't like Grandma, though. This one she did ask "why".

Again, there are those who think I should have lied here. I will admit, I can somewhat see their point. I know how my kids are. They don't particularly care for people who are mean to Mommy and Daddy. However, I refuse to lie to my children. If the truth is something good about another person, great. If the truth is something bad, then so be it. I do not believe things should be hidden just because the information may be damning to that person's relationships.

DD asked a question, and while there was a chance it would influence her own opinions I was not going to lie to my child when she asked me why I do not like Grandma.


DD - Why don't you like Grandma?

Me - A long time ago, when you were a very little baby, Grandma said some not-nice things about Mommy. She also did some not-nice things when Mommy took you to visit her. Grandma never told Mommy sorry, and sometimes she still says not-nice things about Mommy. So, Mommy doesn't like Grandma.

DD - Is that why Grandma can't come to our house to play?

Me - Yes, that is part of why she cannot come play at our house.

DD - I like playing with Grandma. Can I still go see her at her house?

Me - Of course you can! If you want to like Grandma, and if you want to play with Grandma when you are there, you can!

DD - I like Grandma. But sometimes she ignores me. Then I don't like Grandma. Can I have some chocolate milk please?

*end conversation*


I see nothing wrong with our conversation. My DD asked a question. I answered her honestly. Some would say I should never have told her that Grandma says bad things about me. But if I were to hide that piece of information, how would I have answered DD's question? I would have had to lie to her. I either would have had to make something up (lie), or I'd have had to find a way to just omit that information (also a lie - lie by omission).

The people who would have had me never reveal that info to DD, though, would also be the people who would have had me lie in the first place. They'd have had me tell DD that I do like her Grandma, in which case I'd never have to tell DD why I don't like the woman.



I've discovered these are the people who would have me spray paint DD's life with glitter. I would create an image of BFa and his family full of goodness, claiming everyone is awesome and kind and loving. I'd take DD's complaints about her father and his family and turn it into something good in order to make them seem less like assholes.

I would intentionally say things intended to decieve DD. I would give her a false impression of BFa and his family.

Sound familiar? Scroll up and read definitions 1 & 2 for "lie".




Now for the biggie, the issue that caused the "rile up" and my "flaming":

My DD's dislike for her father is no longer because "he's a boy". It is no longer an innocent phase she'll grow out of. Currently, she genuinely doesn't like him very much. She may decide in the future that she likes him again, but for the time being she doesn't. As such, she does not want to go visit him anymore, and has told me so for the past 3 visits. The first of which resulted in a MASSIVE meltdown on DD's part that lasted from the moment she woke up that morning until sometime after she was placed in BFa's car.

A rundown of that morning:


6:30am - wake DD up. DD refuses to get up, rolls over and pulls blanket over her head.

6:35am - second attempt to get DD up. She sits up, yells "I'm not going!", then hides under the covers again

6:40am - I pull all blankets off DD's bed and tell her to get up. Screaming ensues. I walk away and get DS dressed and set him up with some Cheerios.

6:50am - DD is no longer screaming. Instead she is sitting on her bed crying that she just wants to stay home. Conversation ensues:

DD - I don't want to go see BFa. I want to stay home with you!

Me - But don't you want to go have fun, and see WBFa? And maybe Grandma?

DD - No! I don't want to see any of them! I don't even want to see (the cat)!

Me - Why don't you want to go?

DD - Because I love you more, Mommy.

Me - I love you too, sweetie. We still have to go. BFa gets to see you too sometimes.

DD - NO! I want to stay home!


This pretty much continued all morning. It also continued in the car on the ride down.

When we got to the meeting place, I spoke with her father before getting DD out of the car. I wanted him to be aware that it might not be the greatest visit, and I told him why. He laughed it off and shrugged as if he didn't believe me.

So, I get DD out of the car. She proceeds to walk up to BFa and tell him she isn't going, that she is staying with me and going back home. DD then proceeds to try and get back in my car.

His reaction? He says "Hey! Where are you going?!" then grabs her and sticks her in his car. No acknowledgement of her being upset, nothing. This results in a major meltdown.

DD is kicking and screaming trying to get out of the car. She is demanding to go back home. She's crying. She starts begging, pleading, and eventually starts looking very scared.

BFa, unfortunately, completely ignores her. He doesn't speak to her, doesn't look at her, nothing. He just straps her in and goes to shut the door. By all means it looked like he had just kidnapped a child, and she was still screaming bloody murder in the back on the verge of hyperventillating.



For a typical 4yo, ignoring a tantrum is what you do. DD is not your "typical" 4yo girl. DD haas behavior issues. These issues stem from emotional issues. These emotional issues, according to her therapist, are most likely due to an underlying mood disorder.

Small tantrums, yes, we are supposed to ignore. Escalations we are supposed to try and calm before they become explosions. Explosions we are supposed to help her calm down. BFa has been informed of this. He was aware of this before the morning of this incident.

DD was escalating, and he ignored her completely. DD exploded, and he continued to ignore her completely. Her explosion cycled into panic...



I intervened. I openned his car door and helped my daughter. I did not remove her from the car. That would have made it worse if she were taken out and then had to get back in once calm.

I did grab her hands in mine and kept saying her name until she was able to look at me. This took about 5 minutes. At that point I was able to get her calmed down in only another 5 minutes of time. Get her to look at me, followed by deep breaths to get her to focus and calm down.

Once calm, I talked to her briefly about why she was upset (wanted to go back home). I told her I understood that she is upset, and that it is ok for her to be upset, but it was not ok to hit, kick, scream, and try to bite. I told her it was BFa's turn to see her, and that I was sure she'd have a lot of fun. I told her I love her, and I reminded her that she'd get to come home the next day. We hugged and I closed the car door.

I then reinformed BFa of her mood disorder and the way her tantrums, escalations, and blow-ups are supposed to be handled. He gave his generic "ok, I get it" response and left.



Before you point out the obvious, I know he doesn't "get it". He's even spoken with DD's therapist about it and doesn't buy into any of it. He thinks DD will just "grow out of it" and be "normal". He's refusing to think this is any different than other kids just being brats. His reasoning? One of his friends' son was supposedly way worse than DD when he was DD's age, and he "grew out of it" and is now the most pleasant child in the neighborhood!

No amount of talking to him is getting him to realize he needs to take this seriously. A mood disorder is NOT the same as typical preschooler tantrum behaviors. But this is for a different venting post.




Now, the reason I told you about this particular DD drop-off:



As I stated, DD currently genuinely does not like her father.

When she came home the next day, I asked BFa how the visit went. According to him, it was not like their normal visits. She had no interest in playing with him or WBFa. She didn't want to talk to anyone, either. There was no running around, nothing. She was just "not her typical happy self". Instead, she sat on the couch and stared at the TV or off into space. Or, she curled up on her bed and slept. Or she sat on the floor in the livingroom looking at books or coloring while ignoring everyone around her. The entire visit DD just seemed very angry, and when she would speak to someone it usually came out sounding very angry.

He asked me if this is a normal occurance at home. I took the opportunity to yet again try to explain to him about mood disorders, especially Bipolar disorder since that is the one the therapist could see her developing into. I told him this will continue to happen. She will either level out around second or third grade and she'll just be a "moody person" her whole life, or she will progress into an actual mood disorder that will probably need management.

He argued that she could still be "normal" and not even be moody. It doesn't have to be that way. I've informed him that, yes, with a mood disorder it IS that way and he needs to understand this so he can appropriately handle problems when they arrise while DD is in his care.



So... crappy visit with her father.



We got home, and she wanted to just go to bed. The next day, however, I did talk with DD about everything. It had become apparent that there's a reason she was that adamant about not going to the point of a blow-up. I needed to find out what that reason is.

As it turns out, DD is ignored for quite a bit when she's over there. Small tantrums, large tantrums, escalations, explosions. Though, explosions usually land her in a time-out over there.

She was most upset, though, that she is ignored when something is actually bothering her. Now, to an adult the "problem" may not be a problem at all. To a 4yo, however, it could be something huge. According to DD, she's ignored over these things as well.

She doesn't like being ignored. BFa ignores her. She doesn't like BFa anymore, and no longer wants to go.




The questions, and honest answers, that got me flamed by a few people:



DD - Can you let me stay home next time?

Me - No, I cannot let you stay home on the days BFa gets to see you.

DD - Why not?

Me - BFa is your father. As such, he gets to see you sometimes too. Mommy gets to see you all the time! BFa only gets a couple times to see you, and you need to go see him.

DD - But you're Mommy. You can tell him "no".

Me - Actually, I cannot tell him "no". Not for this.

DD - Why not?

Me - You know how there are rules that you have to follow? (yeah) You know how if you don't follow the rules you can get into a lot of trouble? (yeah) Well, Mommy has rules she has to follow, too. And if Mommy doesn't follow the rules, she can get into a lot of trouble also. One of those rules is that I have to let BFa see you sometimes.

DD - Oh. Well, can BFa let me stay home?

Me - Yes. On the days that BFa gets to see you, if he were to say you can stay home then you could stay home. If he were to say no, though, then you would still have to go. I'm sure he would miss you a lot if he didn't get to see you.

DD - He can miss me all he wants!

*DD then refused to talk any more about it*




Again, I do not see how I have wronged my daughter by telling her the truth. Will the answers hurt her relationship with her father? Maybe. Like I said before, though, I do not believe truth should be hidden just to "protect" people from the harm that can come when people are fully informed.

It is a fact that I cannot keep DD home on the days BFa gets visitation.

It is a fact that BFa can make the decision to let DD stay home on those days.

I have given my DD truthful information. BFa may not like my honesty, but that is because it places him in conflict with DD when she acts upon the info she has been given. I truly feel it would be wrong to lie to DD in order to protect BFa. If he truly wants a good relationship with her, then he will need to work for it just like any other parent.




As for what DD has done with the information:



The past 2 visits she has asked BFa if she can stay home. She has not had a meltdown. She has not cried. She has not screamed. She has not freaked out in any way.

She gets out of my car, walks up to her father, and calmy asks - "I really don't want to go today. Can I please stay with Mommy this time?"

Sadly, he never answers her. He doesn't acknowledge the question at all. Even if the answer is "no", she would still prefer to not be ignored... and he doesn't even give her that.

So, for the past 2 visits, I have watched my DD ask her question. I watch her get ignored. I watch her little shoulders slump as she makes a big sigh and comes to give me a hug. I hug her, tell her I love her, and reassure her that I'm sure she'll have a lot of fun. I remind her that she comes home the next day, and then I watch as she slowly, with head hung down, goes back to her father and gets in his car.





Again, there are people who would claim this all could be avoided if I had never told her the truth. If I hadn't let her know that BFa has the power to let her stay home, then she wouldn't be asking him. As such, she wouldn't be being hurt by him ignoring her question.

I say this is total bullshit!

Had I hid the truth from my DD, she'd still be very upset about the situation. She would know that she doesn't want to go, and that Mommy was making her, and that BFa was making her... and she wouldn't even remotely know why. She would still be demanding to stay home, most likely having meltdowns every time. She would still be being ignored by her father.

DD would be even more stressed out not knowing the truth than she is now that I've told her.

I gave her information. I gave her facts. She now knows that I am not forcing this on her "just because". She knows that I have to let her go, and that I cannot change that. She also knows that she could stay home if BFa says it's ok, but if he says "no" then the visit does have to happen. The past two visits, while still somewhat crappy, have shown that DD can better handle "being made" to visit BFa now that she's been "clued in".

How is this possibly a bad thing?!




Oh, wait. Those people who would have me outright lie, or lie by omission, think I am intentionally turning my DD against her father. They think I am passively agressively making her hate BFa and his family.

Apparently, instead of telling my DD the truth, I'm supposed to be making her feel all warm and cozy. I'm supposed to be trying to change her mind about her father. I'm supposed to be trying to make her like him again.

Again I say...

BULL-FUCKING-SHIT!!!!!!! (wow, that's definitely an interesting image)

Really?! I'm supposed to invalidate my DD's feelings? I'm supposed to tell her her feelings are wrong? I'm supposed to withhold information that can help her better handle her emotions, just so "Daddy of the Year" doesn't have to deal with the repercussions of his own stupidity!? REALLY?!




No. Not going to happen. Ever.




Lying and withholding information is not in DD's best interest. It might be in BFa's best interest, but it is not in DD's best interest.

As her mother, my concern is what is best for DD. Being open and honest with her is what is best for her.




I will continue to tell my DD the truth.








... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...







Side note:


BFa is not the only person who may be illaffected by my honesty with my children. I am honest with them (well, DD right now. DS is only 1 and isn't asking questions yet, and "baby" hasn't been born yet) about everyone and everything.

My SIL was in a TO last year for a few months. Seeing as she lives with MIL, MIL pretty much because "collateral damage". Although, that was more through her own choice as we did extend the invitation for her to visit us here.

DD noticed we hadn't seen MIL and SIL in a while. She asked us why...

By the end of her questioning, she knew that DH and I were upset with SIL (her aunt). She knew we were upset with her because she said some very mean things. She knew SIL had not appologized. She knew we wanted to still see MIL (Abuela), but that MIL kept saying "no" when we asked her to come visit.

Her own summary of it when it was all said and done:


"So, Titi is in a time out for not being nice. I get time outs when I'm not nice, but I say 'sorry' so I can come out of them. Titi should say sorry. And Abuela needs to come play anyway because she isn't in a time out."




It isn't just BFa that I'm open and honest about. It's everyone.